The Secret History

[Mandragora]

I looked up the TSH movie, it IS a PALTROW movie... to be directed by Gwyneth's bro Jake, and to be produced by her. You guys should check out the Donna Tartt Shrine website re casting speculation... CLARE DANES as Camilla? I don't think Claire would fit the role... Jude Law as Charles if Gwyneth is Camilla (which she'll probably do, she's producing it)... Ben Affleck as Henry? NO... I am not anti-Ben, but Ben Affleck just exudes IT too much, he's not subtle really. A lot think that PS Hoffman would make the best Bunny. And well, they should think that the characters are COLLEGE STUDENTS, someone even suggested Cate Blanchett... Ewan as Francis? HM.

Some Jennifer suggested Christian Coulson should be casted as Henry, and I almost replied to that in agreement, then it hit me... could this Jennifer be OUR jencoulson? I wonder why nobody replied to that thread, didn't they see CoS? Geez, people who are just clueless of Christian's talents just irritates me

[Mandragora]

I am really sorry, but I cannot just help doing this:

Christian Coulson as Henry Winter

Robert Sean Leonard as Richard Papen

Flora Montgomery as Camilla Macaulay

Paul Bettany as Francis Abernathy or Charles Macaulay

Philip Seymour Hoffman as Bunny Corcoran

Ian McKellen as Julian Morrow

Jude Law as Francos Abernathy or Charles Macaulay


I am starting to become OBSESSED...

[jencoulson]

Wow! Flora is perfect for Camilla, and McKellen is perfect for Julian! Someone needs to contact those casting directors!

[jencoulson]

Oh, um...yes, I believe that was me.

[Mandragora]

Paul Bettany, now that I think about it, would be a perfect Francis...he's the guy from "A Beautiful Mind", by the way (and he and Jennifer Connelly recently tied the knot) Yep, Flora's face kept popping in my head as Camilla, and PS Hoffman as Bunny, and Christian, of course. I know these actors are quite older to be playing college students, but HECK Russell Crowe played a college student and Gabrielle Carteris was in her 30s when she played Andrea Zuckerman in Beverly Hills 90210!

Hmmm... maybe through some miracle, TSH is already shooting and that is where Christian's 'on location' is? I really hate to be pushy, but I cannot think of anyone else who can play Henry Winter.... I just hope NOT Brendan Fraser or Chris O'Donnell! Not that I do not like these actors, but they ALWAYS ALWAYS portray college kids.

If we look at the 'younger' American actors, hmm.... Ryan Philippe as Francis? Ashton Kutcher as Henry? Majandra Delfino as Camilla? Tobey M as Richard? J van der Beek as Charles (HAH)? Eek, I cannot imagine it, these characters are just waaayyy too sophisticated!

Heh, like I said I am obssessed

[lizifer]

i saw this guy who was perfect for francis in london at the weekend! but i can't think of any actor i know who'd be perfect, theres a few who i think may work [the guy from 'a beautiful mind'] but no1 seems perfect!

am gonna check out that website in a minute

but noooooooooo ben affleck can't be in it, i don't know why but i just totally do not want him in the movie!

jude law as charles would deffinately work, and that flora chick as camilla would work judging by the pic u posted here.

ian is the perfect julian tho

[Sampaguita]

What happened to this discussion? Did we forget about TSH?

Well, anyways... I'd like to pose a question to you all. Say that you're going through a particularly bad time. Things in your life have gone completely colorless. It's as if somebody turned an overgrown fishbowl upside down and caged you in its center. As for feelings, you feel like you've completely lost yours. Everything has gone numb... you feel things, but everything has been dulled.

Keeping in mind the above conditions, of all the characters in TSH (including the minor ones i.e. Judy, Cloke, Dr. Roland etc) who would you find to be the most comforting? Which character would you run to? Why?

Mine, as many of you might be able to guess, would be Henry. Mainly because it seems like he always knows what to do. I think I'd also run to him because he kinda knows what life without color is like. Henry is a character that keeps you on your toes... you feel safe with him, but there's a capacity for danger there that might break through the numbness. With his uncompromising attitude ("d**n the torpedoes, full speed ahead"), he seems the type to be able to shatter the glass of the fishbowl, but at the same time keep you from getting cut by the shattering glass.

My runner-up would be Dr. Laforge because, no matter what, he seems to put the concerns of his students first... He's also concerned about fairness and such. Tied for runner-up would be Richard.

[lizifer]

good question! i'm gonna say francis or richard. basically these are the characters i connected with whilst reading the book so i think they'd be the ones who'd be able to help me get thru it.

i'd never really feel safe with henry, i never felt for/connected with his character.

it'd be interesting to see if my opinion changes when i read the book for a 2nd time!

[Sampaguita]

A lot of people think that I'm a little disturbed when I say that I would feel completely safe with Henry... Most people, though they sympathize with him and can view him through the lens that Richard sees him through, have a lot of trouble separating him from "the murder mastermind."

The truth is, I think I'm so attached to Henry because he reminds me of someone that I know... And like him, Henry seems to be the exception to almost every rule. I also don't think that Henry really used Richard. I believe that Henry was genuinely concerned about Richard's health that night he admitted Richard to the hospital. I honestly believed him when he said "I don't want to involve you..." etc.

Which leads me to ask the question, do you think that Henry was just using Richard?

[Mandragora]

Henry using Richard, in my opinion, YES.

I would love to run to Henry, but I identify with him in ways I understand (and as how I see it) why he uses Richard. So I'd definitely run to Richard. I guess that would be a personal choice because honestly, I am the kind while in the middle of a crisis, I need a soundingboard, and not a psychiatrist. I figure things out as I realize the dilemma in the process, not when somebody tells me.

(Obviously I can be so stubborn, but sometimes, this realization happens when I 'hear' it incidentally... not like I consciously ask for it)

Maybe, like Henry too, if I had my Camilla equivalent, it'd be enough to have that person around.

[Sampaguita]

Well, when I said that I'd run to Henry, I don't think that I was thinking about verbal therapy. I'd certainly TALK about the colorlessness and numbness, but I was thinking about another kind of therapy. Do you think it was a coincidence that the night that they killed Bunny, they all engaged in some physically intimate activities? Though, when considering Henry as comfort, it was more than just the physical intimacy I was thinking about... This is going to sound strange, but just a hug from Henry is something that I think would ground me... His very presence would get me through. (But yes, I would crave the *ahem* physicality of a connection with Henry and I think that would be instrumental in shattering the fishbowl.)

I think, as a runner-up, Richard's mere presence wouldn't be AS comforting or grounding as Henry's. He might understand if I were to talk about it... And the numbness might lift momentarily if there was a physical aspect to the "Richard brand of therapy" BUT it wouldn't be enough... because he'd eventually leave or get disgusted.

As for the other runner-up, Dr. Laforge... He'd be more of a sounding board that I'd trust. He wouldn't solve anything, but he'd be more of a person that would make that "one-day-at-a-time" BS bearable. I won't lie... if I was deep into the smothering-fishbowl situation, I might just engage in some physical activity with Laforge just to see if I could feel something or anything-- but it isn't very likely. (I wonder if that was what electro-shock therapy was about.)

And getting back to the "was Richard used and manipulated" question:

Okay, I concede that on some level Richard might have been used... but I think that he was aware of it and let it happen. I DON'T think that he was manipulated or his will was violated. I think that if he'd have to do everything over again, knowing the outcome and such, he'd do most of it all over again. I think the only things he'd change would be stuff with Charles and that fateful last moment with Henry in Julian's office. I also don't think that Henry had any malicious intent towards Richard.

I didn't really IDENTIFY with Henry so much as I just fell in love with him. He has a lot of what I don't. He has this immense sense of control. I identify with both Camilla and Richard. I identify with Camilla in habit, style of dress, we're both attracted to the same kind of man... I identify with her also in terms of the fact that we both want to be saved. I identify with Richard in that I've lied to keep the picturesque, being a malcontent, and English literature.

So I guess I'm the opposite... I'm waiting for a Henry equivalent in my life to rely upon and have that be enough. (This isn't to suggest that I'm a wilting flower only existing to have my knight in shining armor ride in and save me... but I want a man that CAN save me.)

[lizifer]

yeah i think henry used richard, but i think richard was subconciously aware that he was being used. but i don't think he was *just* using him, i think he also cared for richard on some level.

[Mandragora]

Well regarding Henry's intentions on Richard (he saved Richard's life during that wonter break where Henry's supposed to be off to Europe with Bunny), I think Henry had an idea that Richard had been lying to them all along (Richard pretending to be from a rich family in California), and Henry understands Richard's stance in the group. Richard has been trying SO HARD to belong to them, and I think via that Argentina incident, that makes Richard more 'belonged' to the group, by letting him on the little big secret --- the Argentina tickets incident is the prequel to how Richard finds out about that night in the woods.

Henry as a character is fascinating, but I am not so sure I'd INTENTIONALLY run to him in the case of a dilemma. I guess, if I knew someone in my little world like Henry, who would be a substantial part of my life, I'd probably have problems with him. Say, it's like a paradox. He's in the background but he's on a pedestal. If I were to consider him my equivalent, in one way or another, he'd be in too deep in me, I'd have to detach myself and see from the outside. I'd keep this Henry around and see how he sees my personal dilemma --- and as how I'd interpret Henry, I don't think he'd do anything about it if he knew it doesn't involve him. If it does, I just knew he;d scarifice himself for it. So I'd rather not include him.

Aw, I feel so 'touchy' as how Holden Caulfield would put it. A couple of hemorrages a piece!