The Secret History

[jencoulson]

In "The Secret History," there is a section titled, "Questions and Topics For Discussion." There are several questions I'd like to discuss:

1. Richard states that he ended up at Hampden College by a "trick of fate." What do you think of this statement? Do you believe in fate?

2. When discussing Bacchae and the Dionysiac ritual with his students, Julian states, "We don't like to admit it, but the idea of losing control is one that fascinates controlled people such as ourselves more than almost anything. All truly civilized people ~ the ancients no less than us ~ have civilized themselves through the willfull repression of the old, animal self." What is your opinion of this theory? Are we all attracted to that which is forbidden? Do we all wish we could let ourselves go and act on our animal instincts? Is it true that "beauty is terror?"

3. In the idyllic beginning, it is easy to see why Richard is drawn to the group of Greek scholars. It is only after they begin to unravel that we see the sinister side of each of the characters. Do you think any one of the characters possesses true evil? Is there such a thing as true evil, or is there something redeeming in everyone's character?

4. In the beginning of the novel, Bunny's behavior is at times endearing and at others maddening. What was your initial opinion of Bunny? Does it change as the story develops?

5. At times Bunny, with his selfish behavior, seems devoid of a conscience, yet he is the most disturbed by the murder of the farmer. Is he more upset because he was "left out" of the group or because he feels what happened is wrong?

6. Henry says to Richard, "...My life, for the most part, has been very stale and colorless. Dead, I mean. The world has always been an empty place to me. I was incapable of enjoying even the simplest things...But then it changed...The night I killed that man." How does Henry's reaction compare to that of the others involved in the murders? Do you believe he feels remorse for what he has done?

7. List some of the signs that foreshadowed the dark turn of events. Would you have seen all the signs that Richard initially misses? Or do you believe Richard knew all along and just refused to see the truth?

8. What do you make of Richard's unrequited love for Camilla? Do you feel that she loved him in return? Or did she use his love for her as a tool to manipulate him?

9. The author mentions a quote supposedly made by George Orwell regarding Julian: "Upon meeting Julian Morrow, one has the impression that he is a man of extraordinary sympathy and warmth. But what you call his 'Asiatic Serenity' is, I think, a mask for great coldness." What is your opinion of Julian?

10. Do you think that Julian feels his is somewhat responsible for the murder of Bunny? Is that why he doesn't turn in the group when he discovers the truth from Bunny's letter?

11. The rights for "The Secret History" were initially purchased by director/producer/screenwriter Alan J. Pakula, and they are currently with director Scott Hicks. What are your feelings about making the novel into a movie? Who would play the main characters if you were to cast it?

12. What is the meaning of Richard's final dream?

Sorry, I didn't include all the questions, just the ones I feel are most important. Please respond, I'm interested in hearing your views.

[jencoulson]

1. Richard states that he ended up at Hampden College by a "trick of fate." What do you think of this statement? Do you believe in fate?

I'm really not sure. I believe that God has a plan for everyone, but He also gave us free will...I suppose there are many things that God is responsible for, but I believe that people can make their own decisions. Maybe He affects our fates indirectly?

2. When discussing Bacchae and the Dionysiac ritual with his students, Julian states, "We don't like to admit it, but the idea of losing control is one that fascinates controlled people such as ourselves more than almost anything. All truly civilized people ~ the ancients no less than us ~ have civilized themselves through the willfull repression of the old, animal self." What is your opinion of this theory? Are we all attracted to that which is forbidden? Do we all wish we could let ourselves go and act on our animal instincts? Is it true that "beauty is terror?"

As a teenager, I agree with Julian's statement about losing control. The idea is intriguing...no worries, reservations. If I lost control, I'd be ruled by instinct alone. It would be simpler, but...would we be able to experience love, friendships? And as for, "Beauty is Terror"...I agree. The most beautiful things (mountains, oceans) are rugged and unfamiliar. With the ocean, it's beautiful, but a completely different world, mostly unexplored, and dangerous.

Sorry, I have to go eat dinner, I'll post the rest of my answers ASAP.

3. In the idyllic beginning, it is easy to see why Richard is drawn to the group of Greek scholars. It is only after they begin to unravel that we see the sinister side of each of the characters. Do you think any one of the characters possesses true evil? Is there such a thing as true evil, or is there something redeeming in everyone's character?

4. In the beginning of the novel, Bunny's behavior is at times endearing and at others maddening. What was your initial opinion of Bunny? Does it change as the story develops?

5. At times Bunny, with his selfish behavior, seems devoid of a conscience, yet he is the most disturbed by the murder of the farmer. Is he more upset because he was "left out" of the group or because he feels what happened is wrong?

6. Henry says to Richard, "...My life, for the most part, has been very stale and colorless. Dead, I mean. The world has always been an empty place to me. I was incapable of enjoying even the simplest things...But then it changed...The night I killed that man." How does Henry's reaction compare to that of the others involved in the murders? Do you believe he feels remorse for what he has done?

7. List some of the signs that foreshadowed the dark turn of events. Would you have seen all the signs that Richard initially misses? Or do you believe Richard knew all along and just refused to see the truth?

8. What do you make of Richard's unrequited love for Camilla? Do you feel that she loved him in return? Or did she use his love for her as a tool to manipulate him?

9. The author mentions a quote supposedly made by George Orwell regarding Julian: "Upon meeting Julian Morrow, one has the impression that he is a man of extraordinary sympathy and warmth. But what you call his 'Asiatic Serenity' is, I think, a mask for great coldness." What is your opinion of Julian?

10. Do you think that Julian feels his is somewhat responsible for the murder of Bunny? Is that why he doesn't turn in the group when he discovers the truth from Bunny's letter?

11. The rights for "The Secret History" were initially purchased by director/producer/screenwriter Alan J. Pakula, and they are currently with director Scott Hicks. What are your feelings about making the novel into a movie? Who would play the main characters if you were to cast it?

12. What is the meaning of Richard's final dream?

Sorry, I didn't include all the questions, just the ones I feel are most important. Please respond, I'm interested in hearing your views.[/quote]

[lizifer]

wow thats a lot to think about....b4 i can answer the questions properly i think i would have to read the book again but heres my answers to some of the questions.....

1. yes i believe in fate, everything happens for a reason....but then again sometimes its up to the individual to make these things happen

2. i think that yes most people are attracted at something they cant have/thats forbidden. about the 'beauty is terror' thing, i'm not sure about this

3. i don't see any of the charatcers as true evil but i think that maybe there is a small number of people who out there that are true evil....actually no i think some people are like 99.999% evil but there is some good in everyone, even if it is a very small %

4. i liked bunny as a character at the begining but as his character was developed i began to like him a bit less, but i never really hated him or anything.

5. i think a bit of both

6. i never really got the feeling he felt guilty for what he'd done, he was just scared of someone else finding out. it tormented the others more than it did him, even richard seemed more affected by it than henry and he wasnt even inovlved [in the farmer murder]

will answer the others when i have more time!

[ausaims]

This book must be really good if it can inspire so much discussion.

[Mandragora]

Hm, I haven't reread TSH for months, but I'll try..

1. I guess in that sense, yes. I think that is the more appropriate phrase to describe how he ended up where he was, but the funny thing is, I think 'trick' is the word since that how he ended up in Hampden is not like he REALLY meant to be there.

2. Are we attracted to what is forbidden? I wouldn't say that, but I think we are more attracted to the TRUE NATURE of things, which has become, forbidden. The 'beauty is terror' thing, I think it has something to do with the fact that truth is not at all beautiful, that's why we're terrified.

3. NO. I see everyone in this group, except Bunny, in a way, that they don't live in a world where there is heaven or hell. There existence is purgatorial; good and evil is not defined. Put them in the 'real world', maybe they are, but I guess that's what made Richard attracted to them: they don't 'live' in the real world. I am not referring to the 'head on the clouds' bit, mind you.

4. I think Bunny represents those who are torn between choosing what is his 'Marion-life' and his life as 'one of them', if you know what I mean. He knows the 'power' of what it is like being with the like of Henry, but really now, he's also using them, esp Henry. It shows in Bunny's background, and I can see why Henry despises him, and at the same time keeps him. I see Henry's been trying to 'convert' Bunny but seeing that it's not happening, and Bunny being a hindrance and all, Bunny had to go. But Bunny's okay, I mean, it's not like I hate him.

5. I think because that's when he realized that what's been going on is 'wrong'. He was not in the scene of the crime, but Bunny sees the blood in his hands.

6. I think Henry just felt the life in his blood when he took someone else's. I think he's remorseful because he had to kill someone to realize it, but then, I think he knows he's different, and remains undisturbed to the event.

7. Richard refusing to accept the truth is one way of looking at it. But he's supposed to be the one who 'wrote' the story, so maybe while writing it he's also in denial. I mean, the bedsheets and everything, there's already something fishy in there. I think Richard wants to stress that he knew nothing about it at first, but of course, eventually...

8. Richard found something in Camilla, I guess, and that would be the 'beauty is terror' in the flesh, but I don't think Camilla loved him. I see that Ricahrad is never really one of them; that the group needed an 'outsider', a neutral one, to be the spectator of their, uh, lifestyle. Well, I wouldn't exactly call it 'lifestyle', but...

9. Julian is trying to be like one of those great Greek teachers, but he's a failure in that and he knows it.

10. I think so, maybe that's why he went away. He's a very good mentor, but he realized, I guess, that through his 'lessons' the students' curiosity got out of hand. That's what made him plummet to the ground, realizing he's failed, and somebody died.

11. REALLY? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT! Oh my, TSH, a movie... well, they'd better not mess it. I have to admit, while reading it, I knew it would be fit for a screen adaptation.

Hm, now, the CASTING CALL. I vote for CHRISTIAN COULSON for HENRY WINTER. PHILIP SEYMOUR HOFFMAN for BUNNY. FLORA MONTGOMERY for CAMILLA. That guy in "The Beautiful Mind", Rusell Crowe's ROOMMATE for CHARLES, or FRANCIS. TOBEY MAGUIRRE or JASON VAN DER BEEK for RICHARD. IAN MCKELLEN or IAN HOLMES for JULIAN.

12. What is the meaning of Richard's final dream?
That Henry has found his place, and that is anywhere but this world.

I felt like I am answering stuff for a book report

[Mandragora]

You know what, while answering these questions, I am starting to know and appreciate myself more... HOW WEIRD! And to be perfectly honest, I don't normally talk like this in-front of my friends, someitmes it can get sickening ang tiring when your friends affectionately call you the 'weird one'... the heck with it

Yay, go against the flow, that's the TRUE NATURE of things! And I am so TERRIFIED, I am actually having FUN.

Sorry, am going out of my head.

[Mandragora]

I meant, 'sickening and tiring'... I ALWAYS mistaken 'g' for 'd', both while typing and writing, esp with the word 'and'. Must be some for of dyslexia, hahaha.

[ausaims]

I often mistake z for v for some reason and f for d....

[Voldie_M]

ausaims..is that welsh by your name???

[lizifer]

ok heres some more answers from me...

7. i didn't see the signs and i don't think richard did either, but i'd have to read it again to make sure...

8. camilla didnt love richard and god knows why he loved her!

9. i basically agree with mandragora about julian, he was trying to be someone he wasn't, someone he could never be.

10. yeah i think he felt responsible in some way

11. i would love to see it as a movie as long as they stayed tru to the book. casting, i would love to see cc in it, alltho hes not really my image of henry but i think he could play henry really well. dominic monaghan for charles or bunny, ian mckellen as julian, and i cant really think of who cpould play the others at the moment, alltho mandragoras suggestion of the guy from 'a beautiful mind' as francis could work.

12. hmmmm i guess that henry is somewhere where hes happy now, somewhere where he belongs.

[jencoulson]

Here are the rest of my answers:

3. This will sound naive, but I just can't comprehend true evil. I believe that people can do truly evil things, but I think there is some good in everyone. As for the characters in TSH...they don't seem evil to me. If they weren't such intelligent characters, I'd say they were insane. Then again, I suppose people can be intelligent and insane...

4. For some reason I never liked Bunny. His personality is a combination of every person I've ever disliked! He's a prejudiced, whining, sniveling brat. Sorry, LOL. The point is that I dislike Bunny.

5. I think a bit of both, probably.

6. I don't think Henry really feels remorse; regret, maybe. With the farmer, I think he thinks of it as an unfortunate accident, rather than a sin. As for Bunny...I'd like to think that he's sorry, but he thought it through so carefully.

7. I think Richard suspected, in some primitive, subconscious part of his brain. I think he was in denial.

8. In my opinion, Camilla is a cold *ahem pregnant dogy* character. She seems so unrealistic to me, more a machine than a living person. I think she took advantage of Richard, and that she never really loved him.

9. I'm not sure what I think about Julian...He's such a complex character. Somehow, I wasn't surprised that he reacted the way he did upon discovering Bunny's letter. I think I suspected that he wasn't who he appeared.

10. I think he feels partly responsible, yes. It was his comments that sparked Henry and the others' interest in losing control. I believe he knew, at the time, that they might try it, but didn't realize how wrong it would go. When they killed the man, they almost developed a taste for killing. After Bunny's death, Julian felt remorseful and a bit ashamed, I think.

11. Well, Gwyneth Paltrow was already cast as Camilla. I'd say Tobey Maguire (Spider-Man) for Richard. He has that honest, straightforward look, which is perfect for Richard. I'd love to see Christian as Henry, although size might be an issue (Henry was described as being extremely large). Francis and Charles...I have no idea. McKellen as Julian, definitely. And Abby (this girl from my school) for Judy Poovey, LOL.

12. Hmm...I don't think Henry is really happy anywhere. I still don't understand why he pulled the trigger, leaving behind all his friends...and Camilla. *bawls eyes out yet again*

[Sampaguita]

Wow... I have, like 6 minutes to spare right now... but the question I really want to answer isn't posted here. This is the question that I'm most drawn to (and I feel that it's of the utmost importance):

"I suppose there is a certain crucial interval in everyone's life when character is fixed forever: for me, it was that first fall term spent at Hampden" (p. 80). Did you have such a "crucial interval" in your life? What/when was it?

Much like Richard, what I believe to be the crucial interval in my life revolves around an association with a special man (his association was with Henry, of course). The best of what I gleaned from this man transpired December 8-12 of 1997. This man has shaped my writing in so many ways and has become so much a part of how I see myself-- of what I've become. In that one week, my life changed... I was changed and there really is no turning back. And I really don't think that my character, my soul, my raison d'etre etc is ever going to change. But where Richard was 20 when he met Henry, I was 15 when I met this guy.

Now, I'm sure some of you will tell me that Henry wasn't the ONLY person or thing that fixed Richard's character (you'll, no doubt, throw Camilla out there for discussion... or, perhaps, Julian). I tend to believe that it was pure Henry, though. It was at Henry's request that brought Richard into the class and under Julian's tutelage. (As it was Henry that brought the rest of them into Julian's circle of students.) It was Henry that included Richard into their clandestine activities... and it was those activities, the class, etc that fixed Richard's character.

And I suppose the reason that I like Henry so much is that he reminds me of the man who meant (and still means) the world to me. He never included me in murder plans, but he shared quite a bit of darkness with me (most of it a year after that early December) and was very Henry-esque.

So, let me hear your responses... (I promise to answer the other questions later.)

[ausaims]

Voldie M: yeah, it's Welsh by my name, means "I love you Ioan" in Welsh. My grandfather was Welsh, and one of my Uncles is too, so that's how I know some of it.

[Sampaguita]

1. Richard states that he ended up at Hampden College by a "trick of fate." What do you think of this statement? Do you believe in fate?

Sure, I believe in fate. And things have happened to me by some "trick of fate."

2. When discussing Bacchae and the Dionysiac ritual with his students, Julian states, "We don't like to admit it, but the idea of losing control is one that fascinates controlled people such as ourselves more than almost anything. All truly civilized people ~ the ancients no less than us ~ have civilized themselves through the willfull repression of the old, animal self." What is your opinion of this theory? Are we all attracted to that which is forbidden? Do we all wish we could let ourselves go and act on our animal instincts? Is it true that "beauty is terror?"

"Beauty is terror"... certainly. That's part of the reason that I'm attracted to men with a little bit of darkness to them or at least have the capacity for it. (I'm not talking about the stereotypical "bad boys" but guys that have a bit of the dark sinister lying behind their eyes.) As for being attracted to that which is forbidden... sometimes. And there are certainly times when I wish that I could let go and act on animal instinct... I can't speak for anyone else, though.

3. In the idyllic beginning, it is easy to see why Richard is drawn to the group of Greek scholars. It is only after they begin to unravel that we see the sinister side of each of the characters. Do you think any one of the characters possesses true evil? Is there such a thing as true evil, or is there something redeeming in everyone's character?

NO! None of them possesses true evil. They're all just full of flaws. Why else would she open the book with "does such a thing as a fatal flaw exist?"!!!! I believe that true evil exists, but I don't believe that you can attribute it to a person or character. I believe that there is something redeeming in everyone's character. In Henry, it was his being uncompromising and his unwavering leadership. In Richard, it was his sympathy. In Julian, it was his desire to only see things as beautiful. (Nevertheless, he was a bloody coward, and I personally don't forgive him.)

4. In the beginning of the novel, Bunny's behavior is at times endearing and at others maddening. What was your initial opinion of Bunny? Does it change as the story develops?

I kinda liked Bunny at first, but he quickly wore on my nerves. He was funny, but I, myself, wanted to push him down into the ravine at times. And, as someone told me yesterday evening, you have to be pretty heartless to hate your friends for making a mistake. They certainly hadn't MEANT to kill that farmer. Bunny was pretty heartless to call Henry a monster.

5. At times Bunny, with his selfish behavior, seems devoid of a conscience, yet he is the most disturbed by the murder of the farmer. Is he more upset because he was "left out" of the group or because he feels what happened is wrong?

I think it was more because he felt left out... but I do believe that he did feel what happened was wrong. Because he was left out, he didn't understand the gravity or the power of the force that influenced the other four... he assumed that there was an immoral intent.

9. The author mentions a quote supposedly made by George Orwell regarding Julian: "Upon meeting Julian Morrow, one has the impression that he is a man of extraordinary sympathy and warmth. But what you call his 'Asiatic Serenity' is, I think, a mask for great coldness." What is your opinion of Julian?

I liked him at first, but the moment he turned on Henry, I hated him. I honestly think that he is pretty heartless because he didn't stand by the student he appeared to favor and seemed to care about above all his others. If he'd at least turned them in, I wouldn't think him heartless and cold. But he didn't. He just left. He only thought of himself.

10. Do you think that Julian feels his is somewhat responsible for the murder of Bunny? Is that why he doesn't turn in the group when he discovers the truth from Bunny's letter?

Maybe. It's impossible to know. I think that he felt that if the crimes were discovered, he would be held partly responsible, but I really don't think that he thought he failed his students or really felt any guilt.

11. The rights for "The Secret History" were initially purchased by director/producer/screenwriter Alan J. Pakula, and they are currently with director Scott Hicks. What are your feelings about making the novel into a movie? Who would play the main characters if you were to cast it?

I'd like to see this as a movie. I'd cast CC as Henry, but I don't know about anyone else.

12. What is the meaning of Richard's final dream?

I don't know yet

-- I'll come back to the rest of my responses later. I skipped quite a lot. But I need to get some rest and I need to get to some of my actual homework.

[Mandragora]

GWYNETH? Well... maybe she'll do... actually, yeah, why not... but I REALLY WANT CHRISTIAN TO BE HENRY!

Oh dear, I am starting to see a drama-type like "The Hours", which is not bad... maybe they shoud get Stephen Daldry to direct it.

Which production company is going to do it? Maybe we should have like a petition to have Christian play Henry (fine, maybe Richard)... maybe Christian should buff up a bit!

I can't think of anyone else who can play Henry.