The CC Bookshelf

[Sampaguita]

I didn't have cable when the TV movie came out-- but I don't think I would have watched it anyways. I remember seeing the preview for "Mists of Avalon" at a friend's apartment and knowing instinctively that it was probably going to be horrible.

Lancelet was a coward (in mists) because he was in love with Arthur. Arthur was STILL in love with Morgaine when they became enemies. Nobody really loved poor Gweneviere-- they loved the idea of her. I don't know why. She had to be the most spineless sniveling character in the book.

I'm still not over Kevin's character transformation. What a punk! Viviane and the Old Merlin should have lived forever... then Arthur, Morgaine, Kevin, and Lance wouldn't have screwed the fate of Britain up so badly. I'm tempted to re-read the book just to see if I'll take to things differently.

As for order... I tend to disagree with Catriona (sorry-- I really do respect your opinion). I'd read "Mists of Avalon" first because it gives everything else a greater sense of purpose. If you read the other books with "Mists of Avalon"s motivations in mind, it better explains the characters and what drives them. It also sheds light on a lot of cultural studies, Marxists criticisms, and feminist criticisms that the older books in the literary canon are vulnerable to. But then again... Catriona does have a point.

[MsPoet]

I tried reading The Once and Future King by TH White years ago, but I had to put it down. I couldn't keep reading it. I think I found it too boring. The only other Arthurian book I read was The Mists Of Avalon.

Catriona, I watched The Mists of Avalon, but it wasn't the epic it should've been. They cast well, but I think the performances could've been better, the teleplay closer to MZB's, the direction more "on".....etc etc.

I think that the contention that MZB wanted men to look bad...or has something against men...etc etc.....there's something to that. After all, Morgaine says/feels that (the relationship/love) she has with (the woman who doesn't speak) is unlike, surpasses any other she's ever had. You know, Morgaine is so passionate and intelligent, and no one wants her.....they all want Gwen (altho Lancelot and Arthur actually want each other)....who annoys me!

Donna

[Mandragora]

Oohh, I just finished Ian McEwan's "Atonement"... the impact is pretty much Donna Tartt Part Two. The build-up of tension plateaus pretty much in the last chapter and it leaves you hanging... and then everything gets wrapped up 55 years later. It's one of those Epilogues where the main-person of the story is supposed to resolve everything... but the questions still float in the head.

It's actually a story of a young writer who did something horrible on the onset of her ambition at the age of thirteen. This ambition, specifically how her mind works, changed their lives, and through the same medium, what she wrote is some form of reconciliation and resolution to something that she's been atoning for most of her life.

I might have to agree... how can a writer atone something if in fact she/he is (G)god? This book made me realize somethng about fiction... that it portrays different versions of reality once on paper, but the absolute truth about it is pretty much the mere absence of it.

It made me realize something too (imagine, I finished it at 3 am, and I couldn't sleep afterwards, I was just staring into space, playing back the moments in the story): I have been pretty much attached to fiction lately that I usually prefer them over the supposedly real world--- I hope you guys understand WHY --- and I realize that reading things like this can be as real as it can get but nothing can be as exciting if life gets interpreted other than what we actually see or experience. Everything gets immortalized, in paper, in celluloid, in digital form... and I guess that is another way for the writers/filmmakers/painters/etc want to be remembered: through their works.

I have to apologize... I just had a flash of those interesting epitaphs I read once

[lizifer]

sampaguita, have u finished 'the little friend' yet? i finished it other day and the ending is annoying me!!

[Sampaguita]

Yes, actually, I have. Which is why I think "The Secret History" is much better... where things are pretty open-ended (but not really) to a purpose.

The TLF ending felt a bit rushed to me. It is satisfactory only in the regrets, anxiety, and "OMG!" that poor Harriet feels. But perhaps *ahem* deserved what happened. There are theories on the open-ended-ness... that Donna Tartt left something most people don't pick up on... (Something about Hely's bro and that conversation...) I, however, am not really sure about the validity of the argument and have to re-read it for it to make any sort of sense. After a while, I kinda skipped stuff that seemingly had nothing to do with the direction of Harriet's trail, so I have to do a more thorough reading.

Did it occur to you that Danny Ratliff's name sorta sounds like Daniel Radcliffe's? I'm sure that was pure coincidence. But the fact that Harriet shares the same moniker as "Harriet the Spy" isn't. I mean, there were several redeeming qualities about TLF-- and Tartt is still up to some of her literary inside jokes. But yeah, the ending left me wanting to write her a letter full of questions. (It was SOOOOOOOO Nicholas Sparks at the end of "Walk to Remember"-- but less to the point!) If you were dissappointed, read "The Secret History." It'll redeem Ms. Tartt for you.

[Catriona]

In response to Sampaguita and Ms. Poet's statement: I totally agree with you. The motivations of the characters of the Arthurian legend wouldn't be as clear without having read MOA first.

However, I was just expressing the general view of my class, that reading it first spoiled the rest of the books. So if you don't want to read the other books, then you don't have to worry. Anyways, since we had all read MOA first, we couldn't say for sure what it would have been like reading the other books first. Maybe they would have sucked, I don't know.

[lizifer]

i'm reading 'the secret history' now, read the first few chapters so far, it seems interesting.

yeah tlf ending did seem a bit rushed. when i finished it i was frantically flicking the pages to see if i'd missed out a few pages at the end or something! i need closure on a book, not open-endedness!!! it was a great book, and the ending was good as in it left u wondering what happened but bad [if like me] u need closure! *ahem* deffinately deserved what happened! hmmm i guess i'll have to re-read it [or at least that conversation] to see if i agree with that theory of the open-endedness.

yeah i did notice the danny/daniel name thing and the harriet the spy.

[Sampaguita]

For those of you who haven't read TLF-- try to skip this message.

Like I said, I'm not sure I agree at all with the TLF conspiracy theories out there...

Someone in a discussion group said:

However, I had a sudden association with
a remark of *P*s (somewhere halfway through) about catching snakes: you pull a cord through a tube, by means of which you can catch the snake below the head. I wondered whether there might be a connection, or is it just my imagination running wild?

Suggesting that a certain EVENT was accidental but there was a person responsible for the accidental event. To which someone responded:

Also, at the end, when *cough* spills the beans, *big cough* tells *cough* that *ahem* definitely did not ***. He knows this because...?

I dunno... this was a bad way to explore the thematic journey of a little girl growing up to realize that, although she is kind of a know-it-all, she certainly doesn't know everything and some things are beyond her. It really is a disturbing coming of age.

It was a sort of stretch for me to come to the conclusion that the central theme of the narrative was Harriet's twisted coming of age. I was wondering, Liz, if you were able to come up with any other conclusions about thematics of the story. My conclusion seems sort of feeble and I'm searching for a better explanation.

Mr. Coulson, if you're out there, could you please weigh in your opinion?

Oh, and has anyone out there read "Lovely Bones" by Alice Sebold? Is it worth reading?

[Catriona]

I haven't read "The Lovely Bones" by Alice Sebold, but it's supposed to be really good. I imagine it would be heartbreaking and yet wonderful at the same time.
I was also wondering if anyone has read "the nanny diaries," and if it is worthwhile?

[ausaims]

I tend to have only read law books, and true crime books lately, but that's sorta to be expected as a law/criminology student. (Interestingly enough I'm doing postrgrad in criminology this year and then hoping to work as a RA for awhile before completing my law degree).

However I do read other things: my favourite book ever is "Gone with the wind". And the best thing was when I saw the movie Clark Gable played Rhett exactly as I had always imagined him throughout my reading of the book. My other favourite book is one called "April Fools Day" by Bryce Courtenay. It's Australian, and he wrote things such as "The Power of One" and "The Potato Factory." Anyways this novel is a true one about his son who died of medically aquired AIDS as he was a haemopheliac and got it through a blood transfusion. But the story no matter how many times I read it always makes me cry!!! At the same time it's a beautiful read...

[lizifer]

u know the thing abut catching a snake would work as a theory, its subtle but its still there, a hint. and true how did he know it wasn't *ahem*. my minds working overtime now!! i'm deffinately gong to re-read it looking for clues.

there were bits in the book that i really couldn't work out what they had to do with the plot/theme of the story, such as the red gloves, that kinda confused me at one point. then i tried to think what the story was really all about. i think its about growing up, leaving childhood behind, kinda like the movies "stand by me" and "sleepers" in the sense that an event makes them realise they aren't kids anymore, one event changes the course of their life forever. like a turning point for harriet, one the summer was over nothing was ever going to be the same! weel, thats all i could think of theres probablly some deeper meaning that we're missing but thats the conclusion i came to!

i would love to hear christian's theories on the plot, it would make for a very interesting discussion!

[Mandragora]

ME WANT COPY OF TLF NOW! (ew, what was that?)

I saw "The Nanny Diaries" in the bookstore, quite interesting though. I notice that a lot of books are going over that genre... you know, the books of Freya North, the books like "The Nanny Diaries", "The Feng-shui Junkie", "The Girls' Guide to Hunting and Fishing"... I guess contemporary writers now are leaning towards the lighthearted and themes that are found in everyday life. Something that can be said like a good, fun read.

My preferences though, is the type where the moment I put the book down, I'd go, "Did you READ THAT? DID YOU READ THAT?"... same thing with movies: "DID YOU SEE THAT? DID YOU SEE THAT?"... and music, "DID YOU HEAR THAT? DID YOU HEAR THAT?"

I AM going MAD. I need a MIRACLE.

[Sampaguita]

Liz, have you finished TSH yet? I'd love to hear how you think it compares to TLF.

Oh, and we haven't yet brought up lyrics and poetry. There's an indie alternapop/rock artist whose lyrics to this one song really get me for some reason. Her name is Marina V. and I'm hopelessly addicted to her song "Killing My Dream":

Never thought that I could break in two
but you have shown me
you have always told me I could count on you
but where did you go?

I'm dreaming of yesterday
dreams won't hold me down
as you push me away

CHORUS
Am I really alone
right next to you?
or am I chasing a ghost
of what I once thought was true?
Don't worry, everything's fine with me
I won't let on that you're killing my dream

Never thought that I could hurt so much
but you have shown me
you have always told me I should play it tough
but how can I pretend?

I'm dreaming of yesterday
Oh, I know the truth
Yet too scared to be brave

CHORUS

So now it's done, tell me
does it make you feel right
To be the one to break me down inside?
______

Just as an aside, she reminds me of what I think Ginny Weasley would look like all grown up... here's what she looks like:


What do you think?

[lizifer]

yeah i finished tsh, in my opinion it was better than tlf. when i 1st started reading it i didn't think it would be because u get told at the begining what happens in the book but after the 1st few chapters i was hooked! i think its one of the best books i've read, just when u thought everything was cool, another twist happened. i can't make my mind up if i like henry or not i love francis and richard tho

and that chick does look like an older version of ginny

[ausaims]

I agree-she does kinda' look like a grown up Ginny!!