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Post by Sampaguita on Jan 8, 2003 18:00:44 GMT -5
"Pop" by definition is popular... And Coldplay does qualify as top-40... so strictly speaking, Coldplay is pop. Sure, they have an alternative rock sound, but they're signed with Capitol Records-- the place that churned out Kylie Minogue, Snoop, The Beach Boys, Duran Duran, etc... hmmm I guess they're not indie anymore, are they. If you want indie/mild rock you might want to try The Lyndales (CD available on Amazon). Don't know who they are... maybe that's because they're indie.
But like I said, I don't hate them. I like some of their songs... but some of it can come across sounding like pretentious BS.
As for the Ms. Dynamite comment... I've only seen a bit of her "dy-na-mi-tee" video, but it appears that her use of her hands as well as the rest of her body is a direct visual quote of an old cultural musical tradition (gosh that's incredibly ethno-assumptive of me-- yuck). Her use of the hip-hop posture is a claim at authenticity by quoting something of an ethnic tradition (god, I'm using all these incredibly dangerous and loaded terms). It makes sense-- especially since she's also musically quoting a history of self-naming and self-declaration. (For more info go to the musicological/historical/cultural text "With His Pistol In His Hand.") God, and you've gotta love her use of call-and-response... sounds like a Jamaican influence.
Hmmm. I wonder what hip-hop journalist Oliver Wang thinks about her... I might have to ask him. I could use the drive up to Berkeley.
If you like her sound, you should check out Medusa... who actually cut a track that sounded a little like "dy-na-mi-tee" with Ozomatli called "Vocal Artillery." And you all should take a listen to Ozomatli anyways... they've got this gift for blending a lot of different sounds... hip-hop, jazz, bhangra, cumbia, salsa, ranchera and some others.
What are you guys listening to, by the way?
All this music talk is reminding me of something I read that sounds like Christian... Piece will come in subsequent post.
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emily
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by emily on Jan 8, 2003 18:52:36 GMT -5
do u all know "say hello,wave goodbye" by d.gray?
its very long.and i listen to it ,listen to it.....and listen to it.
by the way:i wish u all a very happy new year.we have snow here,i missed it and did not,i love the new,"fresh" snow,the calmness in the country,everything is white....thats great.
emily
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Post by Mandragora on Jan 9, 2003 8:42:29 GMT -5
Emily, I haven't heard that one by David Gray... I kind of like his "New Day at Midnight" album, though. Was it from one of his older albums? That David Gray songtitle reminds me of this favorite The Beatles' song "Hello, Goodbye"... the ironies of relationships, if you guys know what I mean.  Oh heck, to be honest I want to go deeper into the classics, particularly Rachmaninoff, but then his music might drive me insane... due to too much emotion. Pachelbel's "Kanon" is a favorite to run to... quite funny Princess Diana had it as her funeral march while I want it to be my wedding march, along with this Led Zeppelin song covered by Miss Tori Amos.  That is, if I ever get married. But then that would be another in-depth discussion.  |
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emily
New Member
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Post by emily on Jan 9, 2003 14:19:15 GMT -5
classic,very good,i love it.my father is a conducter in a theatre in munich.right now,he s learning a partiture (i dont know the english word.i m speaking of the book,where u can find all the music - of an opera for example)
i was part of many operas ,when i was younger,but not in munich-at this time ,i lived on the baltic sea.love it....
so-i am very pleased to know now,that i do not seem to be the only one ,who s loving this kind of music.thats the real one,allright....
emily ;D
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Post by jencoulson on Jan 9, 2003 15:40:16 GMT -5
What are you guys listening to, by the way? Right now I'm in an Avril Lavigne mood. Her music is about stuff I can actually relate to. She's just a normal teenager with ordinary problems and stuff. The reason I like her and NOT Britney Spears or whoever is because her music is very real, it's not all sugar-coated. |
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Post by Sampaguita on Jan 9, 2003 17:40:15 GMT -5
As for "classical", if Rachmaninoff scares you, you might want to stay away from wildly programatic music. Lizst would not be the way to go... neither would Mendelsohn. I'm fond of recommending the "Moonlight Sonata" just because that's what I'm working on right now. You might want to take a listen to Mozart-- Laudaute Dominum kicks ass. Pachabel's Cannon in D is great... and simple... Where else can you strictly go through the cycle of 5ths and invoke such bittersweet emotion. I like Clemente. But you should try listening to some Debussy. OOOOOH! Opera! Did you know that the most recently written opera is "Jerry Springer: The Opera" and acting as the chorus is the audience chanting "Jerry! Jerry!" I'm SOOOOOOOO serious. I just found this out last Friday after seminar. Here's the link: www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/26/1030053032476.html As for what I think about opera, I love it. I'm SUCH a Puccini and Rossini fan... I liked "Dido and Aneas"... I loved "Porgy and Bess" (yes! it is an opera). Oh! And "Don Giovanni." Oh, and I can't forget "Salome." I have to say though, I'm not big on Wagner-- I have to be in a certain mood to appreciate it. What have you been in Emily? Avril. Now there's an interesting character. I don't think she's any more "authentic" than Britney or Christina. I remember reading an article where even her friends and some of her producers admited that she was a poser. I think it was on the E! website or Entertainment Weekly. She has a more pallatable image for the more rebellious listener, but she doesn't write her own songs either... and she comes out of the Country music tradition. And I think only two songs on her album struck me as remotely honest: "I'm With You" and "Things I'll Never Say." I hate Christina Aguilera (as well as Ricky Martin) because she's tapping into the image of the sexed-up-exotic... and her visually quoting the "Flashdance" water scene was a bit sick (and not in a good way). She's not even doing it for a validating purpose... it's so gratuitous, it's not even funny. I can tolerate Britney's use of orientalism in "Slave" but it can be a bit offensive to me as both a woman and a Filipina. I love Michelle Branch... which really is nothing but cheap hooks and generic rock/pop chords. BUT the combination of which translates into something that I love: i.e. "Goodbye to You." I also like that fact that she's a successful Asian-American artist. Jocelyn made it to top-40 in 1996, but hasn't yet signed with a major label... Yikes! I've got class in less than half an hour and I haven't read the articles yet. |
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Post by Ginny Chick on Jan 9, 2003 17:55:12 GMT -5
LMFAO!!!! There's a Jerry Springer Opera?!!!  That's hella funny! Sampaguita, are you sure that you're not Carson Daly in disguise? Have you thought about doing that Wanna Be a VJ thing? |
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Post by ifrasnyccoulson on Jan 9, 2003 18:05:52 GMT -5
i was watching the BBC broadcast with him and bonnie wright on Leaky Cauldron.com and i couldn't hear him clearly because he was talking low and because i think i listen to my CD player to lod and am now going deaf, but i could have sworn i heard coldplay. He mentioned others but i only heard coldplay.
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Post by lizifer on Jan 9, 2003 18:25:40 GMT -5
What are you guys listening to, by the way? i'm listening to craig david's 'slicker than your average' album at the moment  |
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Post by Sampaguita on Jan 9, 2003 21:05:18 GMT -5
LMFAO!!!! There's a Jerry Springer Opera?!!! That's hella funny! Sampaguita, are you sure that you're not Carson Daly in disguise? Have you thought about doing that Wanna Be a VJ thing? Are you from NorCal? YES. Unfortunately or fortunately, according to your own opinions, "Jerry Springer the Opera" does exist. I believe it's playing somewhere in Britain now. I don't know where, though. No, thank god, I'm not Carson Daly in disguise. I'll try to take your comment as a compliment, though. I don't particularly like him because I think he's an irresponsible twit posing as a music journalist. I don't even think he does his own research. I saw him at a roundtable discussion on popular music-- mainly hip-hop-- and he made himself look ridiculous with his lack of knowledge AND he accused Oliver Wang of not backing up his criticism of Eminem... which Wang did repeatedly, by citing lyrics and critical theory and looking at the music. I wouldn't mind if you compared me to Chris Connell, though. (For anyone who knows, is he at CNN now?) As for the MTV VJ question... I don't have the look of a VJ. I don't even want to be on the air. A research position with MTV might be nice, but I'd want to work for either MTV 2 or MTV Espanol or MTV Asia. Putting together their documentaries might be a good gig to get, but I find them to mainly be useless musicologically speaking... and worthless as a pop-culture critique. But we'll see if I still think this if they offer me a well-paying job. I think my goal is to be widely and frequently published on the Alternative Weekly circuit. Thanks for thinking that I'm cool, though... it's nice to get validation from somewhere. To Liz: I think Craig David's a great R&B artist too, but I haven't heard any singles of his on the radio lately. Tell me about this one. Oh! And if you could send over the lyrics of that song's hook, I'd be much obliged. [for those of you that don't know what a hook is-- so I don't have to IM reply to 6 different people: a hook is the "catchy" part of the song... and it usually repeats. Sometimes it's in the chorus. For example on that song "Big Yellow Taxi" the hook is "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot." Hope that helps.] |
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Post by Mandragora on Jan 9, 2003 22:36:12 GMT -5
My first exposure to the classics is Beethoven, and I love "Moonlight Sonata", "Pathetique Sonata", "Appasionata", his violin concertos and Overture to Egmont. Liszt, hmm... I am not too familiar with all his works, but I have listened to some of it and I liked it. Hey, he's the boyfriend of George Sands, right? No, George Sands was a woman writer who acted around like a d**e. Well, that's what my Art Studies prof said. ;D
By the way, I did my research on Beethoven's background years ago, his Immortal Beloved letters was really something. Anyone knows who has resolved that mystery?
Sampaguita, is 'hook' similar to 'sampling'? Puff Daddy 'sampled' "Cannon" in "I'll See You When YOu Get There". That Janet Jacksn cut, "Don't Know What You've Got Til It's Gone" is really cool.
Aside from my MP3 selection that I play while using my PC, a selection of sorts from Elliott Smith to Norah Jones to Eels, I am listening to... uh, nothing else. Oh, there's this selection of rock cuts from the mid-90s, the alternative stream, composed of Belly, The Dambuilders, Jesus and Mary Chain, among others. I am going to say this again, the mid-90s has rocked more than the contemporary rock that most people would ever know.
Augh, Avril Lavigne. I hate to say this, but I don't see the point of that frigging necktie.
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Post by Sampaguita on Jan 10, 2003 0:08:10 GMT -5
My first exposure to the classics is Beethoven, and I love "Moonlight Sonata", "Pathetique Sonata", "Appasionata", his violin concertos and Overture to Egmont. Liszt, hmm... I am not too familiar with all his works, but I have listened to some of it and I liked it. Hey, he's the boyfriend of George Sands, right? No, George Sands was a woman writer who acted around like a d**e. Well, that's what my Art Studies prof said. ;D By the way, I did my research on Beethoven's background years ago, his Immortal Beloved letters was really something. Anyone knows who has resolved that mystery? Sampaguita, is 'hook' similar to 'sampling'? Puff Daddy 'sampled' "Cannon" in "I'll See You When YOu Get There". That Janet Jacksn cut, "Don't Know What You've Got Til It's Gone" is really cool. Aside from my MP3 selection that I play while using my PC, a selection of sorts from Elliott Smith to Norah Jones to Eels, I am listening to... uh, nothing else. Oh, there's this selection of rock cuts from the mid-90s, the alternative stream, composed of Belly, The Dambuilders, Jesus and Mary Chain, among others. I am going to say this again, the mid-90s has rocked more than the contemporary rock that most people would ever know. Augh, Avril Lavigne. I hate to say this, but I don't see the point of that frigging necktie. Georges Sands was with Frederick Chopin-- another pianist of the Romantic period. And YES!!!! She was a woman. I think he was actually a kept man, because she sorta supported him for a while and she had her own children. It's been years since I've done any substantive research on him, though. It's funny that you bring up the "Immortal Beloved." The question you're referring to is the "who is she?" question, right? I don't think that's ever been solved. In fact, Musicologist Susan McClary has this crazy idea that Beethoven was gay... I don't think that he was. She argues it from a music-theory-harmonic standpoint, but I think she's flat-out wrong ESPECIALLY based on her theories. There are too many masculine harmonic endings in his music. If you want to find out more about this you can find the anthology "Queering the Pitch" edited by one of my late professors Philip Brett. [God, I can't believe his husband is teaching this quarter if he died in November... consequently, I'm in his husband's literature class right now.] But yeah, I contend that the "Moonlight Sonata" and especially the "Symphony Pathetique" sound inherently masculine and give away the fact that he's straight. The "hook" isn't the same thing as a "sample." HOWEVER, a hook can be sampled. A "sample" is, at it's most basic level, just a soundbite taken from somewhere else. Like, if you hear the sound of a Harley Davidson in a song, that's a sample... or if you hear a helicopter in a song, that's also a sample. A breakbeat is a sample. A repeated sample or soundbite, is a "loop." Oh, and a "breakbeat" is that percussive moment in a song where the drums get virtuousic and the song usually moves to the bridge. Yikes... all this jargon... Anyways, I agree with you about the Janet song. Did you know that she didn't lift Joni Mitchell's hook from the original recording? Joni Mitchell actually re-recorded the hook for her... so it was more of a collaboration. The mid-90s rock movement gave us Hootie and the Blowfish... But then, it also gave rise to the GooGoo Dolls (who I still like) and the like. Blues Traveller was cool too. I remember I liked Oasis at the time with "Don't Look Back in Anger" and Jan Arden's "Insensitive" most of Alanis's CD "Jagged Little Pill" and that song "What If God Was One of Us?" But 1996 gave us the friggen Spice Girls and Hansen heralding in the age of bubble-gum pop. I have to say, though, I really liked that Whitetown song "I could never be your woman." It's also funny you should mention the Avril-tie issue. I find that most of the people around me at my university that hate the Avril-tie are alternapop/alternarock/punk/anti-mainstream Filipinas. Nobody else seems to have a problem with it. I actually don't mind the tie... on someone else. I'm a little biased against Avril... She doesn't have the right to claim that she's "real." The same way that Christina Aguilera didn't have the right to a coulple years back. They're both as produced and unoriginal as anyone else in the pop industry. T*ng y na! I'm getting long-winded at these... But I love talking about music... But I have to go read a musical/critical theory text by David Cohen called "Theoria." Back to the middle ages for me. |
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Post by freelancer on Jan 10, 2003 0:30:32 GMT -5
The whole 90's rock schtick that's still living today in an altered form? Ahem. I blame Pearl Jam.
Art is always recycling, but that doesn't stop me from complaining about "music awards" and the several thousand mini-Pearl Jams getting nominated each and every year.
I've decided on a wish: Matthew Good Band, please stay in Canada. I know you won't sell your soul to the devil just as Raine did, but seeing you on MTV would hurt my soul.
A few tangents here. A Lil' mini rant in there. I'm done.
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Post by Mandragora on Jan 10, 2003 4:03:39 GMT -5
I know what you mean Freelancer... these guys who want to sound like Eddie Veder! I like Pearl Jam, though... I just hate those Pear Jam clones. At first I thought Silverchair was doing a Kurt Cobain part 2-- well, they did--- but from their latest single, they have sound too poppy; i quite like that song though ("Greatest View")
Thanks for correcting me Sampaguita... yeah, it was Chopin, not Liszt. I think it was Liszt who was the sort of heartthrob during his time.
And the Immortal Beloved... I have this theory that Beethoven was writing to no one in particular, or maybe he was writing to a stranger. Something similar to Whitman's "To a Stranger" (though I quite imagine he was writing to a prostitute), and that Ally McBealesque idea of "The Someone".
Another thing that I love about the mid-, or say early 90s was that angst seemed... genuine. Actually, it was genuine. Yeah, I find Avril to be pretentious with her so-called claim to angst. I just saw one video of her where she was smashing this guitar and I was like, "What on earth is she trying to demonstrate?" Yes, she was smashing a guitar, but with just the image of Alanis Morisette running back and forth onstage and Fiona Apple poised in-front of the piano made Avril's antics, uh.... uh....
I have yet to find younger artists who seem real. So far, Norah Jones. Vanessa Carlton is okay. I wonder what happened to Chantal K. That girl from "Felicity" who sang this track in the soundtrack sounded good though.
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Post by ausaims on Jan 10, 2003 6:22:40 GMT -5
I have never heard of Ms. Dynamite!!!! Australia must just be another planet!!!! |
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That is, if I ever get married.
That's hella funny! Sampaguita, are you sure that you're not Carson Daly in disguise? Have you thought about doing that Wanna Be a VJ thing?
