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Post by jencoulson on Dec 29, 2002 20:31:08 GMT -5
Hey, I was just wondering what you all think will happen in future HP books? I think that the reason Snape resigns from the Death Eaters is because he's in love with someone ~ maybe a half-blood. I also think that that same woman will teach DADA. Oh, and James Potter is related to Godric Gryffindor, because he and Lily and were in Godric Hollow when Voldy murdered them. Oh, and I'm hoping that we'll find out why Tom hates Muggles so much. I mean, it can't just be because of his dad. Maybe he was seeing someone, and that person cheated on him with a Muggle, and therefore he concluded that all Muggles are scum? Don't ask, I realize it's very farfetched. Also, I think there should be a Time Turner thing where someone either kills Tom before he went bad (Harry), or changes him to good (Ginny). I love Tom/Ginny ships.  |
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Post by MsPoet on Dec 29, 2002 21:00:31 GMT -5
This stuff was already discussed....but....I'm not complaining here...because for one, it's freakin' 8 pages long...and two....there's always room for more.
There's something I read yesterday:
Harry's mother was named Lily, and his aunt is named Petunia; Malfoy's mother is named Narcissa. ALL of them are names of flowers. Now, considering that JKR has already gone to lengths to name her characters---or it seems that way, at any rate---this definitely might mean a connection.
Could they be sisters?---Has Petunia ever said she had only Lily as a sister?----that could help explain further bitterness toward Lily on her part; not only Lily was a witch but so was her other sister, Narcissa---whom she avoids discussing at all costs esp because she is still alive being a witch (even more bothersome than being dead and a witch).
Jen...have you been reading other HP sites as I have on occasion?---re the Time Turner or something else that happens? On one site it said that JKR said that Tom Riddle being described as Salazar Slytherin's "ancestor" WAS correct (according to that site poster, some of the books had been published with the word "descendant" instead of "ancestor," and she had insisted it be changed back again).
Hmmmm
Donna
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Post by Sampaguita on Dec 29, 2002 21:37:53 GMT -5
I think Tom and Harry are blood related. In the standard hardcover U.S. printing of the book, on page 233-234 it says "while Harry was sure he had never heard the name T.M. Riddle before, it still seemed to mean something to him, almost as though Riddle was a friend he's had when he was very small, and had half-forgotten." [it's in the chapter "The Very Secret Diary."]
I know that most people interpret that to mean the connection to Voldemort that has already been explicated, but I think it has to be more than that. The familiar gut feeling has to mean more than the bond between a man and the person who tried to kill him. Harry's first instict was to trust the diary and Tom. Why?
There's also the issue of syntax. Rowling used the word "friend" instead of "acquaintance." She also makes mythological and biblical allusions... One of the major tropes or themes present in both forms of story-telling is how the father in power wants to kill off the son that threatens the power. Saturn (he's the titan I'm thinking of, right?) and Zeus. Oedipus and his father. Saul (Old Testament)... there's more, but I can't really think of them right now and my reference books are elsewhere.
As to who dies: It's either Snape, Ginny, or Hagrid. What I do know for sure is that it'll be someone guilty of ineffectual heroics or someone the reader has been conditioned to care for.
The trope of the flower-names does seem important, but I don't think that it will lead to any familial connections.
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Post by on Dec 29, 2002 23:31:54 GMT -5
JKR said that Harry/Voldy blood relation would be too Star Wars yet fans go on and on and on about they being related although JKR denied it and related Harry/Voldemort via magic as explained in COS. Harry felt as if Tom was his friend because part of Voldemort is inside of him. That`s the only explanation. Why fans can`t let go of "Harry I`m your father/grandfather/uncle/brother" cliche is beyond me. I understand they like the idea because it won`t happen but if JKR pulled it they`d whine she ripped off SW.
And if Snape left death eaters because of a girl I`d throw up! That`s so simplistic and so un-Snape. Can`t people change their mind because they realized they joined the wrong side and did wrong things? Must it always be a girl? Must it always be a cliche?
Why Tom hates Muggles? because they humped him in the orphanage. That`s logical. he can`t even say the word "orphanage" which indicates something unspeakable happened to him. I can`t think of any other unspeakable thing.
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Post by Sampaguita on Dec 29, 2002 23:47:28 GMT -5
JKR said that Harry/Voldy blood relation would be too Star Wars yet fans go on and on and on about they being related although JKR denied it and related Harry/Voldemort via magic as explained in COS. Harry felt as if Tom was his friend because part of Voldemort is inside of him. That`s the only explanation. Why fans can`t let go of "Harry I`m your father/grandfather/uncle/brother" cliche is beyond me. I understand they like the idea because it won`t happen but if JKR pulled it they`d whine she ripped off SW. And if Snape left death eaters because of a girl I`d throw up! That`s so simplistic and so un-Snape. Can`t people change their mind because they realized they joined the wrong side and did wrong things? Must it always be a girl? Must it always be a cliche? Why Tom hates Muggles? because they humped him in the orphanage. That`s logical. he can`t even say the word "orphanage" which indicates something unspeakable happened to him. I can`t think of any other unspeakable thing. It is a bit of a cliche... but if she said no, then I guess I have to accept it. I was SOOOO looking forward to a Cronus vs. Zues thing with some kind of redemption in store for Tom. I think that she could do a blood-relation thing without it looking like a Star Wars rip-off. It's possible... but in some kind of allusion to something in comparative mythology.
It's too d*mn easy and too much of a cop-out to explain the connection the way that she did. That's my only issue with it... Actually, a lot of her explanation for Voldemort gets interesting, but when she gives us the climax, it's usually some kind of cop-out esp. book 4's "Flesh, Bone, and Blood." |
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Post by on Dec 30, 2002 6:53:59 GMT -5
I`d have a big beef with HP series if blood relation between harry/Voldy was used to redeem Voldy. I hated the easy redemption of darth vader in ROTJ. The guy didn`t bat an eyelash when Alderaan was blown to bits with several billion people on it and yet he`s redeemed because he saved Luke`s arse? Gimme a break! IMO, Tom is 100% unredeemable, he was bloody Hitler at the age of 16, he killed Myrtle. Nothing can justify that or make him look better no matter what crap happened to him when he was a kid.
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Post by Sampaguita on Dec 30, 2002 14:15:39 GMT -5
I`d have a big beef with HP series if blood relation between harry/Voldy was used to redeem Voldy. I hated the easy redemption of darth vader in ROTJ. The guy didn`t bat an eyelash when Alderaan was blown to bits with several billion people on it and yet he`s redeemed because he saved Luke`s arse? Gimme a break! IMO, Tom is 100% unredeemable, he was bloody Hitler at the age of 16, he killed Myrtle. Nothing can justify that or make him look better no matter what crap happened to him when he was a kid. I realize that a blood connection would be problematic for the reasons that you just outlined. I'm not for an EASY redemption either. I actually don't want Tom's redemption to have much to do with that connection. It's really hard for me to explain... I think it has something to do with the fact that I don't see Voldemort/Tom as Hitler so much as demented and disturbed version of Dr. Faustus. I don't think there should be one redeeming act with new blood redeeming old blood. I guess by "redemption" I mean an epiphany... remorse... the weight of the thought "Oh my god, I sold my soul" hitting him full force. And perhaps a bit of repentance. The reason I'd like to see a blood connection between Harry and Tom/Voldemort is because I think he's gotten off too easy with his d**n hero-complex. The moral decisions that he's had to make have been too easy. It's been too easy for him to think himself superior to a fall... and I just want to take him down a level. |
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Post by jencoulson on Dec 30, 2002 17:33:49 GMT -5
Sorry if I mortally offended you, Romana, with my "cliches." I was just speculating, and I'm aware that my ideas are very far-fetched, which I made clear in my post. I never said that I thought those things were likely to happen, just that they would be interesting.
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Dear Diary: Alcohol units, 0; Cigarettes, 0; Mudbloods killed, 14; v.g. Go me!
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Post by Catriona on Dec 30, 2002 18:16:04 GMT -5
As unlikely that it is that HP/Voldey are related, it's still fun to speculate that they are. I mean, I twist stories and movies around in my head to suit me all the time. For instance, I picture that Tom Riddle was secretly obsessed with, say, Harry's grandmother who would have been a student at the time, but she was in love with Harry's grandfather and that is why he hated the Potters so much. I love bad guys with romantic obsessions!
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Post by MsPoet on Dec 30, 2002 23:21:31 GMT -5
Why Tom hates Muggles? because they humped him in the orphanage. That`s logical. he can`t even say the word "orphanage" which indicates something unspeakable happened to him. I can`t think of any other unspeakable thing. Um....geez.....waking up with no family....going on throughout the day without a family (and possibly with overstrict regimens), going to bed at night in a dormitory situation---again, with no family----no mommy to tuck you in at night....no mommy to hug you when you skin your knee---no physical space to call your own--geez, Romana, I'd say that could be pretty damaging. Tom is so bitter about his father having rejected his mother that throughout his stay in the orphanage he probably spent hours upon hours' end daydreaming, imagining what his life would've been like if his father *hadn't* rejected his mother---if he had only loved her for what she was. Or if his father had been a wizard.....in fact, come to think of it (as he may have done)....would life have been simpler if there had never been any Muggles at all?......if they didn't even exist.... And Tom was probably the type of child who was a loner...too introverted to give anyone the time of day, or for anyone else to give him the time of day.....so far gone into his own psyche that the other children in the orphanage left him alone --- which was a catch-22 because that only enabled him to have more time to think. Hogwarts, on the other hand, at least gave him somewhere else to go---a place he could learn the ways to get what he wanted in the end. As for his "redemption"---I had thought that Voldemort was BEYOND redemption---the terror he instills in everyone, after all, is not simply isolated to his deeds---it is expanded to everyone's essences, at all times of the day and night. To me, JKR seems to convey him as the horror of the cosmos--lol---and regardless of his deeds, he has never--NEVER---expressed regret, or doubt, or concern about *anyone* except himself. I have always assumed, thru my 3x of reading the books, that the series was/is moving towards a climax in which either The Good Guys win, or The Bad Guy wins. I have never considered the neutralistic ie "balance" reasoning wherein Tom aka Voldemort realizes his evil ways and everything is forgiven. So far, I've seen *no* signs of that. So far, Harry has apparently "received" some of Voldemort's powers, but Voldemort hasn't received any of Harry's characteristics. Speaking of Harry, I don't understand some of you wanting to, for example, "bring him down a notch." As in "Spider-man"---"With great power comes great responsibility"--and Harry's had great power over Voldemort ever since the spell didn't work on him as a 1-year-old. He has expressed doubts about himself--even wondering, scarily enough, if he were the Heir to Slytherin--and panic that he had so much in common to Tom Riddle. People know Harry is different---and Snape et.al are constantly trying to bring him down----plus the kid doesn't walk around with a sign that says "I AM HARRY POTTER, THE SAVIOR OF THE WIZARDING WORLD" (and no it's not the scar). If the two of them ARE blood-related---well---some of you think it might be cliche but then, life is full of cliches; it depends a lot on how they're written. I'm just anxious to see how it all turns out. Donna |
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Post by Angelamyte on Dec 31, 2002 0:12:06 GMT -5
Sorry if I mortally offended you, Romana, with my "cliches." I was just speculating, and I'm aware that my ideas are very far-fetched, which I made clear in my post. I never said that I thought those things were likely to happen, just that they would be interesting. why are u apologizing? it's not like she has a say into wat's right or wrong...it;s u'r opinion and stick with it..don't let others tell u that u'r OWN OPINION is inaccurate....  ;D |
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Post by on Dec 31, 2002 5:27:38 GMT -5
I don`t want to change anyone`s opinon just stating the fact that JKR laughed at Harry/Voldy kinship crap so this undying rumour/speculation should finally bite the dust.
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Post by jencoulson on Dec 31, 2002 17:26:54 GMT -5
I was actually being sarcastic. |
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Post by Mandragora on Jan 1, 2003 5:34:28 GMT -5
Quite an interesting discussion up there  I am not so sure about Narcissa being related to Lily and Petunia, the Malfoys are supposed to be pureblood, and I don't think Lucius would go for a Muggle-born, unless Narcissa would turn into a Vader and say something like, "Lucius... I am a Muggle" ;D Hmmm, I guess that would be Rowling's challenge to make the upcoming HP more appealing, to stay away from themes that have been used before, though she's still free to borrow concepts, so that makes her work quite a subtle mix of this and that. If ever there's going to be a Voldy-Harry relationship, I really doubt it would be something direct or familial for that matter. And I guess it is not enough that what binds them is the curse that Voldy put on Harry, and Harry's 'shield' was Lily's love... I don't know, too mushy, it's not enough. If 'the wand chooses the wizard', and Harry never got under Voldy's hands, would Harry's wand choose him? I kinda like the idea that there must be some form of evil in Harry and it is in his CHOICES that makes him otherwise. And what really binds Voldy and Harry is beyond logic, and more fatalistic. It's like the concept of the astrological axis, we are in this circle of system but one is only connected to another thru a certain axis. Something like 'cosmic twins' So that makes the whole Voldy-Harry relationship not just exclusive, and the unfolding of events make sense to the whole of the wizarding world. |
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Post by ChristianLover on Jan 1, 2003 21:40:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry to be having to say this aloud, but Romana I can't instant message you and I can't even see your profile, so this has been on my mind for the past three months. I've been lurking here and Romana, your tone is like a man's. Like you don't use qualifiers, but it's not that I have anything against that! but if you ARE a man, PLEASE, PLEASE Romana, know that we don't mind. we're mostly girls here but if you're a guy, that's cool, really! and you know how you're always saying that christian is homosexual, if you are, it's okay. men can like men too. and anyway, most girls like gay friends and you can be our first one so we can all talk about christian.
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;D
Christian, do you like our future?
